John Robertson:

I congratulate my hon. Friend Graham Stringer on securing the debate. I sometimes wonder, when the Barnett formula is mentioned, where I should be coming from, but I think of the old “Carry On” film with Kenneth Williams, when he came out with the line, “Infamy! Infamy! They’ve all got it in for me!” That would apply to every hon. Member who has spoken in the debate. They have all told us that they live in the poorest area of the world or the universe, that they are hard up and that Scots people are well off. Yet by my figures six of the poorest constituencies in the United Kingdom are in Glasgow. My hon. Friend Mr. Davidson represents one of the poorest areas in the United Kingdom. Yet we are told that everyone else’s constituency is just as poor as ours, or worse off. My hon. Friend Chris Ruane mentioned the uneven circulation of money allocated by the Ministry of Defence. Some areas benefit much more than others, including in Scotland and Wales, yet when we talk about the Barnett formula we want to argue about who is the poorest, who is the richest, and who gets money for what.

The agreements were arrived at for a reason. I do not want to give everyone a history lesson, but perhaps I may explain exactly how the Barnett formula came about. The Barnett formula followed on from another formula, which was put in place in 1888, called the Goschen formula. It was based on population, which is why the Barnett formula took a similar approach. Other national characteristics were also taken into consideration. The figures for Scotland traditionally gave a higher level of spending. Why? Scotland contains a third of the British land mass, with isolated islands and rural communities. More than 60 per cent. of the UK coastline is in Scotland. Of the 10 areas with the worst life expectancy in the UK, seven are in Scotland, and six of those are in Glasgow. I have great respect for Mr. Field, and have spoken in many previous debates with him on many Bills, and I apologise for the time when I said that everyone who worked in the City was a crook—it is probably only half of them. But when he speaks of being able to show us poverty only a few hundred yards from here my reply is that I will take him to Glasgow and show him real poverty. We can compare things and see who has it worst.

We appear to have an unholy alliance—[Interruption.] It is disappointing.

Angus MacNeil (Spokesperson (Environment, Food and Rural Affairs; Fishing and Tourism; Transport) Scottish National Party:

Would the hon. Gentleman say that about the Irish nationalists?

John Robertson:

The hon. Gentleman is saying things from a sedentary position, but I would just remind him of the saying about people in glass houses.

My hon. Friend Jim Sheridan made a good point. I do not remember a Labour Government, months into their tenure, being called liars and cheats, and being accused of hoodwinking people to win an election, as has happened with the Scottish National party. I do not remember any party getting that kind of treatment only a few months into its tenure. Promises are promises; we do our best and try to work to them. Obviously, that applies only to certain parties in this House, and I am glad to say that mine is one.

Angus MacNeil:

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

John Robertson:

Certainly. I cannot wait.

Angus MacNeil:

Would the hon. Gentleman care to remind us what the 2003 Labour party manifesto said about council tax rebanding? Did it happen?

John Robertson:

The hon. Gentleman has obviously caught me at a loss. He may carry the Labour party manifesto about; good luck to him. He obviously gets a lot of knowledge from it. I do not carry every one of our manifestos around, but I do know whom I represent, what a lie is, and what the truth is. I shall stand up for that. Unfortunately, it appears that his party, north of the border, cannot do that these days. [Interruption.] I hear from a sedentary position that this is scandalous. I am sure that if I were doing anything scandalous you would tell me to sit down, Mr. Atkinson. If I were telling a lie I am sure that the Scottish National party would want to take me to court.

Peter Atkinson (Hexham, Conservative):

Order. I was about to get to my feet to remind the hon. Gentleman that we are debating the Barnett formula.

John Robertson:

Thank you, Mr. Atkinson; that is what I am talking about. The Barnett formula was an agreement made between Parliaments down here. When I make an agreement with someone I like to stick to it. If we had stuck to it, and merging had taken place over time as was supposed to happen with the Barnett formula, we would not be having this discussion. However, the Conservative party—whose spokesman will unfortunately speak later—let go of the formula from 1979 to 1992 without doing anything about it. If merging had occurred as was supposed to happen, the Barnett formula might have converged by now, or at least we might be contemplating that in the near future. Once again, a political party unfortunately did not do what it was supposed to. It wanted votes north of the border. Well, it got the votes it deserved, with two Members in the last three general elections. That says it all.

As a trade unionist, which I have been all my working life, I have been expected, by the members whom I have always looked after and supported, to deliver as I have said I would. Those expectations extend to the Barnett formula. The fact is that Scotland delivers quite a lot to the United Kingdom. We also have added problems that other areas of the United Kingdom do not have. We have talked of the rural areas and the highlands and islands, and the poverty in some of our inner cities, which is as great as in any inner city in the world in a nation that professes to be a civilized part of western democracy. However, there is at present an alliance between the Conservative party, which I now call the English national party, because that is what it now is, the Scottish National party, which is well known north of the border as the tartan Tories, and the Welsh nationalists, who, I am informed by my hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Clwyd, who is not in his place at the moment, are called the daffodil Tories. That speaks for itself. [Interruption.]

I am somewhat disappointed in nationalist Members. I sat in silence while the Plaid Cymru spokesman did his eight minutes and I never interrupted him with a word. All that they have done this afternoon—and this is a shining example of how the nationalists conduct themselves throughout the country—is shout people down when they do not agree with them.

Peter Atkinson:

Order. I remind the hon. Gentleman that we are discussing the Barnett formula and that we should start the wind-ups quite shortly.

Lindsay Hoyle (Chorley, Labour):

I think the wind-ups have started.

Peter Atkinson (Hexham, Conservative):

Order. Has John Robertson finished?

John Robertson:

No, I was about to give way to Mark Durkan.

Mark Durkan (Foyle, Social Democratic and Labour Party):

I thank John Robertson for not naming my party in the unholy alliance. We are in an age in which the Government talk to us about the importance of evidence-based policy, in which we are told that the focus must be on outcomes rather than just inputs, and in which the Government’s priorities are based on equality, equity and meeting need. Does the hon. Gentleman not accept, therefore, that the Barnett formula indeed needs reviewing? It was not agreed between different Parliaments; it was agreed inside one person’s head in Whitehall. In terms of providing policy accountability, it does no justice to this Parliament to defend a policy that neither stands the test of time nor meets the needs of people throughout the country whom this Parliament serves.
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Peter Atkinson (Hexham, Conservative)

Order. The hon. Gentleman should allow the hon. Member for Glasgow, North-West to continue.

John Robertson:

The hon. Member for Foyle speaks a lot of sense. In view of the time, let me conclude by saying that, although the Barnett formula might not be the panacea for all this country’s ills, it certainly should not be used as the tool to split it up.

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